Please support the Common Lisp Revival 2020 Fundraiser!!!

MICHAŁ HERDA (PHOE) SCAMMED TWITTER INTO LOCKING MY ACCOUNT FOR CALLING OUT HIS DOXING.

[edit: Also see the urgent appeal, since I replaced the link at the start of the pitch to point here instead of there.]
Sorry for the mass ping, but this is extremely important and I should have done this way earlier, I just didn't think of GitHub as "social media"...
Please support the Common Lisp Revival 2020 Fundraiser!!!
The deadline is 10 december 2020!!
Here is the post on twitter and on LinkedIn.
Please spread far and wide for the eternal glory of Common Lisp!!
And please make a donation if you can afford it.
Also see my urgent appeal to LispWorks, Franz, the Common Lisp Foundation, Paul Graham, Planck EZ, and everyone else for additional context. Here is the post on twitter and on LinkedIn.
Please make sure to sponsor me from an account able to give out doublers, you should see a banner confirming this at the top (when logged in).
Also beware of prorating, which might significantly cut down your contribution if you are not careful. Any prorating will be announced on the checkout page, and you may need to sponsor at a higher tier to arrive at the amount that you intended to contribute.
I am inviting the following people (and everyone else interested) to help make the Common Lisp Revival 2020 Fundraiser successful! I simply found them on the Common Lispers list and removed a few, such as (most of?) those that I am quite sure will not be interested.
@svetlyak40wt @guicho271828 @cbaggers @telent @mbattyani @duncan-bayne @artob @mdbergmann @eudoxia0 @kingcons @ahungry @rudolfochrist @ebrasca @genworks @pcostanza @cracauer @sabracrolleton @cxxxr @thodg @delaray @vindarel @orivej @pfdietz @vseloved @xrme @easye @dimitri @michaeljforster @froydnj @antifuchs @fukamachi @rongarret @Slids @lukego @macdavid313 @chaitanyagupta @slyrus @marijnh @froggey @ahefner @marcoheisig @bhyde @kaygun @lispnik @pkhuong @gwkkwg @borodust @fiddlerwoaroof @danlentz @sjl

@dlowe-net @thephoeron @orthecreedence @pmai @zkat @ralt @melisgl @jmercouris @mmontone @scymtym @pnathan @jimka2001 @PuercoPop @luismbo @tpapp @pvlpenev @can3p @sellout @mpsota @gregcman @quasi @CodyReichert @csrhodes @fare @ruricolist @snmsts @drmeister @vsedach @gigamonkey @Serentty @nikodemus @durrendal @jsnell @alessiostalla @billstclair @nklein @malcolmstill @robert-strandh @nzt @sebity @jorgetavares @joaotavora @kennytilton @davazp @didierverna @veddox @Zulu-Inuoe @luksamuk @ryukinix @avodonosov @mark-watson @nhabedi @wiseman @awolven @varjagg @TeMPOraL @inaimathi

@mark-watson @nhabedi @wiseman @awolven @varjagg @TeMPOraL @inaimathi

But I thought I was the chief architect of the looming Common Lisp revolution! Or was that the dear leader of the looming Common Lisp revolution? 🤔

Good luck! God bless you and the Lisp community. We are in suffering.

I've looked through most of the links (I hope).
But it's completely unclear what should the raised money be used for.
What are the short, mid, long term goals?

I've looked through most of the links (I hope).

Hopefully, you didn't click through all of them.  I did, and I regret it.

@Hexstream I don't consider github social media either, so I'm confused why I'm being tagged in something I have no association with - the issue/name tagging is meant for project development, not for what appears to amount to begging.
If I donated the minimum ($5/month) to you, why shouldn't I donate it to all Quicklisp contributors?  At that point, given there are thousands of them, it'd likely cost me over $5000/month to support, which is not realistic.
Could you let me know where I can find the list of people you sponsor/donate to that have contributed to Quicklisp, or CL?

@ryukinix Thank you. We sure are! Things will get better. (And they will get better much faster if I get at least some minimal funding...)
@mdbergmann I am dedicating most of my life to Common Lisp Open Source. You may like to consult my roadmap for the most concrete and immediate goals. A core goal of the fundraiser is to enable me to concentrate almost all my energy on Common Lisp Open Source instead of having to divert energy elsewhere due to financial concerns.
@ahungry

I'm confused why I'm being tagged in something I have no association with

The association is that you are using Common Lisp, and are thus presumably potentially interested in helping Common Lisp succeed, and one of the most direct ways you can do that is by helping fund me with this fundraiser, since that would dramatically increase my productivity at very low cost, so that I can contribute even more faster due to giving me a better quality of life through improved finances.

the issue/name tagging is meant for project development

A major reason why I am soliciting funding is to accelerate the development of my relevant Common Lisp Open Source projects.

what appears to amount to begging

I am working tirelessly to improve the state of Common Lisp infrastructure (notably including community resources), which will eventually lead us to a more dignified state where top Common Lisp Open Source contributors no longer need to resort to begging to get funding. Also, I'm not sure if it counts as "begging" since I have already delivered tremendous value to Common Lisp Open Source. I think it's fair to expect at least a little payback at some point.

If I donated the minimum ($5/month) to you, why shouldn't I donate it to all Quicklisp contributors? At that point, given there are thousands of them, it'd likely cost me over $5000/month to support, which is not realistic.

I don't understand the argument. This is completely unrelated. If you decided to invest thousands of dollars in the Common Lisp community, then giving 5$/month to everyone is literally the least effective way to do good. That's not going to really move the needle for anyone.
Whereas if this fundraiser is successful, then that would vastly increase my productivity as a top Common Lisp Open Source contributor, thereby directly benefitting the entire Common Lisp community.

Could you let me know where I can find the list of people you sponsor/donate to that have contributed to Quicklisp, or CL?

Actually I have been sponsoring a few relevant Common Lisp people, although for some reason they almost inevitably end up backstabbing me in some way. If the fundraiser is completely successful then I can resume the remaining sponsorships immediately and add more, but this is incidental. This is not where my core value is. I am doing this fundraiser because I need funding to help me work on my projects faster. Asking who I am funding strikes me as a bit incoherent.

I hope this helps clarify things for some of you.

Just to clarify for everyone in this thread, @Hexstream "contributions" have been analyzed here by Michael "phoe" Herda (@phoe): https://gist.github.com/phoe/ccba343687dc21e3a71d0dc6db68c96e (spoiler: it's not great)
I was really confused as for why I was tagged as well and had to do some research, where I found this link among various twitter and github threads.

@ralt Michał Herda (phoe)'s "analysis" of my work is malicious, superficial and fraudulent, as I have already denounced several times. Literally the only reason I have not completely debunked him in real-time is that I'm too busy with the fundraiser. I have consistently debunked him in real-time before that. When I revealed to him that I didn't have time to debunk him because of the fundraiser, he immediately jumped on the occasion to unleash his most batshit insane attacks.
Also note that there is strong evidence that Michał Herda (phoe) is neurologically damaged.
He needs to consult a neurologist immediately. I am serious.
See the full story.

Also, he has himself publicly revealed that (and this is a direct quote you can verify) he is "already under weekly care of a psychotherapist and less frequent, but consistent, care of a psychiatrist", although this is clearly not enough. He urgently needs a neurologist too. As linked from my tweet, the actual place he says that is here.

Regardless of phoe's neurological troubles (which I doubt, but that's another issue), I'd say that you should take care of the feuds you have with at least 2 fairly well-known people in the Lisp community (I saw another thread where you were saying Zach was a psychopath?) before promoting yourself for a fundraiser from the Lisp community as a whole.
In other words, clean your door, and then come back once that's done.

I'm probably going to regret engaging in what looks like a days-long flamewar, but...

@ralt Michał Herda (phoe)'s "analysis" of my work is malicious, superficial and fraudulent, as I have already denounced several times.

I took a casual look at your Twitter account (which I suppose you do the majority of your debunking?) and found it's not entirely convincing:

Unfortunately as a student, I don't have the expendable income to give back to the community financially, but if I were, my judgement tells me to first go look at the libraries and development tools that supported me first.

@ralt
I said Zach Beane is a sociopath, and he has never denied or otherwise addressed this in 2+ years after I revealed it.
I'm mostly over it at this point, and we actually have a pretty good working relationship these days.
I have already repeatedly unilaterally de-escalated the situation between me and Zach Beane, and I am strongly considering moving the "PSA about Zach Beane" (which has already been gradually moved to the very bottom of the page) off of HexstreamSoft if the fundraiser is successful or at any later time where the power dynamics would change enough that I can ethically do that. Now that I am starting to be successful, obviously I don't want to start punching down or anything like that.

@samuel-hunter phoe concentrates on the one metric on the page that is obviously patently incorrect, and claims that this completely invalidates all the other obviously much more credible and accurate metrics on the page. This is proof positive that he is neurologically damaged.

@Hexstream if you want your efforts in raising funds and producing good value for the community to succeed, I think you should reevaluate how you address others, because regardless of what you think is right or wrong, your way of communicating will only alienate people. As much as you can contribute to the community all by yourself, you need collaboration to succeed, as you already know since you're asking for resources from others. So, regardless of what you think of other people's neurological or psychological problems, if you want to maintain a collaborative stance, you'll have to be reasonably kind to them (and no, screaming to go to a neurologist asap when you don't understand them is NOT being kind to them). The choice of behavior is yours, and you'll see others reacting accordingly. I can only say that your way of addressing others that disagree with you has actually discouraged me from donating anything, regardless of any technical merits that your contributions may have, that I have no interest now to find out as I put good collaboration over technical value.
Good luck with your efforts.

I have already extensively interacted with phoe, unlike you. He was already crazy, and now he's just getting exponentially crazier, and it's not going to get better unless there is a serious medical intervention. I never throw accusations lightly. He is the only one who has ever thrown anything that I did not immediately debunk, and this is entirely because I am busy with the fundraiser, and he knows this and deliberately takes advantage of this. I will completely debunk him in 2021 as promised.
As for my "interaction style", that is mostly due to me being consistently attacked and humiliated for helping build the Common Lisp community towards a more dignified state, as I explained. The more funding I get, the more I can just concentrate on building our infrastructure rather than defending myself against countless, constant unfair attacks.

Phoe would like to respond to this, but is unable to since you have blocked him.

@johnlorentzson Yes, this is correct and proper, and the justification for it has only kept increasing since then. Michał Herda (phoe) should concentrate all his efforts on treating his deep mental problems. I do not believe he has anything useful to contribute to this debate.

I can't read the Tweet you are linking because you have blocked me.

I don't remember that. What's your twitter handle?
The tweet says: "This was not on my 2020 bingo card: First, I have to declare phoe as being the single biggest threat to the Common Lisp community right now, although it is circumstantial. I'm forced to temporarily block him to concentrate on the fundraiser. I shall thoroughly debunk him in 2021."

You can also log out to see all tweets.

It would be convenient to write something anyone actually uses first, then asking them for money to increase your productivity. For now, as I see it, more productivity on writing useless software isn’t particularly useful.

Actually, there has been vast interest in my work for several months, and my libraries are only a small part of my extensive contributions.

FWIW, I'm unsubscribing from this conversation and do not wish to part of it.

Right, sorry for anyone not interested.

Ok I'm going to throw a little curveball into this discussion.

Unapologetic enthusiasm for CL, such as Jean-Philippe exhibits
consistently, in principle is wanted and needed in our community.

The way JP is expressing said enthusiasm seems widely perceived as an
ego-driven cocktail with a twist of paranoid delusion and a sometimes
shocking lack of filtering and tact (JP would probably refer to this lack
of filter & tact as "ethical" because he is being transparent with his
agenda -- ok, hard to argue with that, but sometimes if you want results
you have to learn how to do some sugar-coating and cultivate a certain
amount of humility, otherwise you are constantly going to be sabotaging
your own goals.

There are plenty of deserving projects and efforts trying to improve the
CL infrastructure. Phoe has started a twitter thread listing some of them.
We are hoping the CLF will be online soon with a check-the-box option for
projects hosted at common-lisp.net (or at least mirrored at
gitlab.common-lisp.net) to activate a fundraiser hosted on CL-based, CLF
infrastructure.  So it's a bit unclear how JP's fundraiser fits in to this
landscape. In response to his direct request to the CLF (through me
personally) for us to grant him funding, I've given JP a response from the
perspective of the CLF that essentially this is not how our funding model
works (at least at this time, we don't have funds sloshing around to be
granted to arbitrary projects -- especially ones who have no presence at
common-lisp.net -- although what we can do is help with hosting a
fundraiser on the CL-based infrastructure we're trying to put together for
that purpose if a project does have a presence at cl.net).

Now here's the curve ball: A couple years ago, the CLF hosted a
fundraiser for the lead ASDF maintainer. Toward the end of that fundraiser,
Jean-Philippe showed up with a $2,520 donation, allowing us to reach our
matching goal. At the time, he requested to remain anonymous, but at this
juncture, I think it's important to spread the word that, due to his
sincere enthusiasm for our community and our ecosystem/infrastructure, he
did make this sacrifice from his limited funds (I did get permission from
him to disclose this now as well).  So although he made this donation
without expectation of any direct payback, I'm going to stick my neck out
and say that I think it would be a gracious move if some of us would hold
our nose and chip in a bit for his current effort, if for no other reason,
strictly to express some gratitude for this possibly ill-advised and rash
"leap" he took a couple years ago, and help ease some of the "buyer's
remorse" he may be feeling from that.  I'm going to pitch in $50.

In the bigger picture, Common Lisp will thrive better if those of us who
are in a position to do so can increase efforts to look for opportunities
to make money from CL from the wider market, rather than looking inward at
each other in the technical CL community for financial support.  Of course
there's a bit of a catch-22 where it'll be easier to make money with CL
when the CL infrastructure gets better, and that will happen better with a
more coherent funding model for independent library and implementation
developers.  But let us not let perfection be the enemy of progress; I can
confirm that it's possible to make money with CL today in the here and
now. Just passing money back-and-forth among the technical community is not
going to grow the whole pie as much as a concerted effort to bring in money
from outside by implementing useful products and services in CL for users
who don't even know they're using CL (or don't care).

Thanks for coming to my TED talk, I'm done.
On Mon, Dec 7, 2020 at 4:25 PM Jean-Philippe Paradis <
<EMAIL_ADDRESS>wrote:

Right, sorry for anyone not interested.
—
You are receiving this because you were mentioned.
Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub
https://github.com/Hexstream/sponsors.hexstreamsoft.com/issues/1#issuecomment-740188972,
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--
My Best,
Dave Cooper<EMAIL_ADDRESS>genworks.com, gendl.org
+1<PHONE_NUMBER>

@genworks
Thank you so much for speaking out, Dave! It's really RARE to see anyone take my side, and this is surely my biggest endorsement yet!
As a bonus, here is what I sent Dave shortly after making my big donation, I think it's pretty informative:

It should be plainly obvious by now that my commitment to the well-being of the Common Lisp community is ABSOLUTE (though not exclusive, see ponies 😂). I also have a strong commitment to "hilarity", and the Common Lisp community, through its various dysfunctions, unwittingly provides plenty of instances of and opportunities for such, in the form of grossly unfair glaring inconsistencies, many of which are to my direct and prolonged detriment and that I am in a position to further magnify through my unfailing benevolence.
Witness Zach Beane (admittedly a strong contributor), who gets all the praise in the world while being astoundingly deaf to the needs of the community and has in countless documented cases denied to dedicate even a SHRED of his vast influence towards the promotion and reinforcement of important community-building initiatives, such as the ASDF Appreciation Fundraiser. Meanwhile, my prolonged and mounting attempts to unify the Common Lisp community using my far more limited resources, of which the Common Lispers list is only the most recent among my string of such initiatives, have mostly been met with summary dismissals and even charges of dividing the community.
Having received an apparent offer of a high-paying part-time remote job from a top-tier tech company on April 1st (LOL), and the ELS beginning on that day, and the ASDF Appreciation Fundraiser having been extended to April 8, and April 1st being my birthday, and a senseless wave of slanderous nonsense being unfolding on the Common Lispers list reddit thread, I thought here was a cosmically hilarious opportunity to immediately dedicate my anticipated new resources to the Common Lisp community, hence my large donation to immediately complete the fundraiser doubler.
While the timing of the offer of course gave me pause, there were multiple signals that this was a genuine offer. I completed an important interview yesterday and am waiting for the results. After a few more steps, if all goes well, I should soon be able to dedicate even more resources to the communities I care about, as I will finally have lifted myself out my financial precarity after 12+ years of work. For years I have refused to even look for a job for fear of compromising my dedication to the open-source community, but the flexible format and high paying rate of this job would allow me to even further enhance my participation in the open-source community, in stark contrast to traditional employment agreements. I am really grateful that this offer has landed into my lap out of nowhere and that I didn't even need to look for it, and did not even have to negotiate the salary.
So now I believe you would have a much better idea of the context of my donation. I thank you fondly for your support!

On Mon, Dec 7, 2020 at 7:06 PM Jean-Philippe Paradis <
<EMAIL_ADDRESS>wrote:

@genworks https://github.com/genworks
Thank you so much for speaking out, Dave! It's really RARE to see anyone
take my side, and this is surely my biggest endorsement yet!

For the record, I am not taking any "sides" here. I'm simply pointing out
that you made this donation and expressing an opinion that it would be
gracious if folks could separate that wheat from the chaff.
Note that your donation setup does not appear to allow one-time donations -
unless I'm missing something, everything is "per month."  I just signed up
for $25 and plan to cancel after the second $25 has been charged.
Thank you again for your generous support of ASDF back in those heady
times.

For the record, I am not taking any "sides" here.

Well, let's just say it's rare to see any Common Lisper publicly say something positive about me, period.

I'm simply pointing out that you made this donation and expressing an opinion that it would be gracious if folks could separate that wheat from the chaff.

Ok, well I hope this is not the chaff.

Note that your donation setup does not appear to allow one-time donations - unless I'm missing something, everything is "per month."

GitHub Sponsors could certainly use some usability upgrades. I'm thinking of starting a ko-fi after the fundraiser if GitHub Sponsors has no immediate plans to improve usability for one-time donations.

I just signed up for $25 and plan to cancel after the second $25 has been charged.

Thank you! That will then effectively be a 75$ USD donation since GitHub will double the first one and not the second (since it will have expired).

Thank you again for your generous support of ASDF back in those heady times.

Thank you, honestly that was pretty reckless and created a lot of drama in the family. :(

Hi Folks,
First of all for those who don't know me, I am President of LispNYC.org and a former ALU president and board member. I also served on the X3J13 Ansi Common Lisp committee for 3 years.
FWIW, I agree with David Cooper and thank you David for your wonderful introduction and summary of Jean-Philippe.
I completely support what Jean-Philippe is doing and we should all be grateful for his past generous contributions.
I will talk to Heow Goodman, Vice President of LispNYC, and Arthur Smyles, our Treasurer, and see if LispNYC can make a contribution as well.
I encourage you all to support Jean-Philippe in whatever capacity you are able to.
Best regards,
Pierre-Raymond de Lacaze
<EMAIL_ADDRESS>Télécharger Outlook pour Androidhttps://aka.ms/ghei36

From: Dave Cooper<EMAIL_ADDRESS>Sent: Tuesday, December 8, 2020, 01:22
To: Hexstream/sponsors.hexstreamsoft.com
Cc: Pierre de Lacaze; Mention
Subject: Re: [Hexstream/sponsors.hexstreamsoft.com] Please support the Common Lisp Revival 2020 Fundraiser!!! (#1)
On Mon, Dec 7, 2020 at 7:06 PM Jean-Philippe Paradis <
<EMAIL_ADDRESS>wrote:

@genworks https://github.com/genworks
Thank you so much for speaking out, Dave! It's really RARE to see anyone
take my side, and this is surely my biggest endorsement yet!

For the record, I am not taking any "sides" here. I'm simply pointing out
that you made this donation and expressing an opinion that it would be
gracious if folks could separate that wheat from the chaff.
Note that your donation setup does not appear to allow one-time donations -
unless I'm missing something, everything is "per month." I just signed up
for $25 and plan to cancel after the second $25 has been charged.
Thank you again for your generous support of ASDF back in those heady
times.
—
You are receiving this because you were mentioned.
Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHubhttps://github.com/Hexstream/sponsors.hexstreamsoft.com/issues/1#issuecomment-740263942, or unsubscribehttps://github.com/notifications/unsubscribe-auth/AAKYSST2NLDBOAG3KQGRDNDSTVWVTANCNFSM4UPUXQNQ.

OH MY GOD, thank you so much! This is... unimaginable!
It looks like we really can turn this thing around, after all!!
:heart: :heart: :heart: :heart: :heart: :heart: :heart: :heart:
(Remember, the deadline is 10 december 2020!!)

I've had quite enough of this nonsense. Just so we're all clear, the sponsorships from myself and Black Brane have been cancelled, and I have purged all Hexstream libraries from our software stack.
Why? I told Hexstream to apologize, and instead he escalated.
I don't mind admitting that I was wrong about Hexstream, and Phoe was right. I stand by the decision to hear them out and let them prove themselves by their own merit, as we have come to the truth fast enough.

 He can't just magically erase my 14 years of genuine hard work like that.

I'm tempted to donate solely to pay for the entertainment that this thread is providing.  I haven't seen cringe comedy this good since The Office wrapped up.

We're just getting started! :rofl:

I completely support what Jean-Philippe is doing and we should all be grateful for his past generous contributions.

I still have no idea what it is he is doing. He made that cool #'format table, and he has some libraries on QL. His roadmap has a few more libraries on them. They seem somewhat interesting. His sponsorship page on GitHub makes vague claims about spearheading a movement, citing his CV for credibility. But that CV doesn't seem to have any large contributions or anything like that, so idk what I'm missing. The only interesting things I saw are what I mentioned earlier in this comment.

For what I've seen around in the community I get the impression that most people either don't know who he is, or they dislike him.

@lonjil

His roadmap has a few more libraries on them. They seem somewhat interesting.

Pretty sure that's a vast understatement.
At least some of the stuff I will release in 2021 will pop your socks right off, and it will only get better after that.
(And definitions-systems 2.0 will be even more important than lispy-format 1.0, due to extremely wide applicability.)
My roadmap also represents only a subset of the cool things I'm planning to do. So yeah, stay tuned.

But that CV doesn't seem to have any large contributions or anything like that, so idk what I'm missing.

For what I've seen around in the community I get the impression that most people either don't know who he is, or they dislike him.

That's the point of all the censorship, slander and other bullshit, yes.

"Truth is compassion"? Now that's funny.
Truth reduces to logical resolution. Compassion reduces to empathy. Resolution deconstructs and validates a thesis by inference. Empathy identifies and embodies all that it perceives. Inference establishes soundness and validity stepwise over unique truth values, to expose contradictions and refine knowledge. Embodiment entails no judgement, discrimination, deconstruction, or analysis.
This is a contradiction.
Therefore, Truth and Compassion are mutually exclusive conditions. You can have one or the other, but not both.
Would you like to choose? Or shall we vote on it?

Poetic, but inscrutable. And given your conclusion, certainly incorrect.
Truth is compassion. This is a fact.

@samuel-hunter phoe concentrates on the one metric on the page that is obviously patently incorrect, and publicly and persistently and insistently claims that this completely invalidates all the other obviously much more credible and accurate metrics on the page.

You seem to trust the Alexa metrics except for the one that's inconvenient to your objective, and yet you have no accompanying data to prove that what Alexa is telling you is legitimate/illegitimate. Alexa only captures your traffic if you're using their certified metrics otherwise it's merely an estimate. Unless you have Google Analytics data to back up your claims, then any claim of popularity is certainly questionable.

Truth reduces to logical resolution. Compassion reduces to empathy. Resolution deconstructs and validates a thesis by inference. Empathy identifies and embodies all that it perceives. Inference establishes soundness and validity stepwise over unique truth values, to expose contradictions and refine knowledge. Embodiment entails no judgement, discrimination, deconstruction, or analysis. This is a contradiction.

Cool philosophy skills bro!  :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:

@benthepoet

You seem to trust the Alexa metrics except for the one that's inconvenient to your objective

What's really convenient is that it is patently obvious that not 100% of the traffic to my top 200k site originates from Canada, and thus that metric is easily and trivially ignored.

you have no accompanying data to prove that what Alexa is telling you is legitimate/illegitimate

Actually, I do, mostly thanks to Cloudflare Analytics. And you have no accompanying data telling you that the Alexa metrics are illegitimate, except the laughable and easily ignored "100% Canada" one.

Alexa only captures your traffic if you're using their certified metrics otherwise it's merely an estimate.

It's a pretty good estimate at 1 million and up, which is why they start showing their graph in that range. Almost nobody uses certified metrics, simply because the estimates are already good enough.

Unless you have Google Analytics data to back up your claims, then any claim of popularity is certainly questionable

I'm sorry but if you want to claim that my top 200k site has no popularity whatsoever, the burden of proof is on you.

@Hexstream ahem.

Re-stating a falsified assertion does not make it true.
A fact is a very specific kind of proposition, one that has to be defeasible to begin with, and rigorously demonstrated to be true.
An axiom is a stated assumption, held as true for the sake of an argument, but not necessarily true. They're more like conditional expressions, but more powerful because they enable free conjecture while maintaining rigor.
I don't think you understand the meaning of poetic or inscrutable. It's trivial to further deconstruct and validate each couplet of my proof.
Asserting a falsehood is just sad.

 For everyone's reference, Delusion is the pathological necessity to impose an irrational, fixated belief inconsistent with reality onto the world and others. You do it a lot, Hexstream, but a play-by-play always helps.

@thephoeron Unfortunately, it seems that you no longer have anything meaningful to contribute to this debate, which is surprising and disappointing. You are very much sounding like a slightly more erudite version of phoe right now, which might begin to explain why you might in any way agree with him.
It seems this debate has activated a catastrophic failure in your cognition, so I'm going to block you for now.

His nickname does contain Phoe too!

Hahahaha! Yes, I used to think that was unfortunate, but now...
But seriously, @thephoeron is generally very highly functioning, and he is at least overwhelmingly a decent person, as far as I am aware. I think the current situation is just too much for him to handle. Nobody's perfect.

So you're registering a startup, and instead of accepting investments, you only want sponsorships? If this were some sort of charity it would be a different story, but I'm not going to donate to your business just because you're using Common Lisp.

On Mon, Dec 7, 2020 at 8:39 PM Pierre de Lacaze<EMAIL_ADDRESS>wrote
...

FWIW, I agree with David Cooper and thank you David for your wonderful
introduction and summary of Jean-Philippe.
I completely support what Jean-Philippe is doing and we should all be
grateful for his past generous contributions.

Hi Pierre,
I respect your softhearted reply here, but since you say you agree with me,
and then go on to make another statement which could be construed to
reflect my position (or worse, the position of the CLF), I feel the need to
set the record straight.  While I am on a one-time basis "grateful for his
past generous contributions," I do not "support what Jean-Philippe is
doing," and the one past generous donation certainly does not make up for
the years of abuse he has dished out.
Jean-Philippe appears to have within him a demon which craves attention,
accolades, fame, fortune, etc. This is commonly called "ego," but is more
accurately understood as "false ego." Let's admit it – we all have this
demon, this false ego, to some extent (ok at least I do, speaking for
myself). Of course I want everyone to love my work and shower me with
praise and accolades and material benefits, and so do you probably.  But
most of us, to a greater or lesser extent, manage to keep this false ego in
a bottle and beat it over the head with a broomstick if necessary in order
to keep it in check. Some of us (so I'm told) even manage to connect with
our real, actual ego, which has nothing to do with seeking out material
fame & fortune. For whatever reason, Jean-Philippe is missing any sort of
broomstick apparatus or connection with his real ego..
Hexstream's resultant performance and presence so far fall into the
category of "attractive nuisance" in my opinion.  It's "Attractive" in the
sense that the unwavering enthusiasm for Common Lisp may appear to
newcomers as a siren call.  Then "nuisance" in the sense that we are
dealing with an individual who will be quick to blame others for his
troubles and attempt to smear them in the mud. It can be a scary situation
to find oneself in, and has not only caused large and ongoing amounts of
pain for several prominent individuals in the CL technical community, but
one can also imagine newcomers to Common Lisp doing google searches
regarding resources and community, falling prey to this attractive
nuisance, then running screaming in the other direction not only from
Hexstream but from Common Lisp entirely, due to false association.  hel.
This situation needs to be contained. Continuing to ignore Hextream is not
going to contain the situation, as phoe has correctly concluded, because
the more we ignore him the more he fills the internet with conspiracy
theories and misleading statements about Common Lisp and its community --
content which hurts every single one of us.
This is why Phoe's work is so important on the one hand – the Hexstream
hyperbolic claims need to have copious rebuttals posted and linked as wide
& far as possible so that newcomers do not become misled by the unchecked
attractive nuisance. On the other hand I urge the community to understand
that Jean-Philippe is a living entity and a fellow human being, and to look
for every opportunity to throw love and empathy his way even though he has
caused so much pain to others. I'm convinced this is the only way to
deflate and ultimately dissolve this unfortunate situation. Part of how to
show empathy can involve helping to make Jean-Philippe whole for the
ill-advised donation he made a couple years ago. In retrospect, I wish I
had tried harder to talk him out of making that donation, because it was
pretty clear even then that it was a rash and unwise move on his part. So
yes, now I'm trying to socialize the losses from my personal mistake at
that time. It's simply an opportunistic moment because github is going to
match donations. If anyone donates, I urge you to make it clear that the
donation is not to be confused with condoning JP's abusive and malicious
behavior nor compensating for any past library work which is neither used
nor depended upon.
Phoe's efforts are not calculated to cause pain to Jean-Philippe, they are
calculated to protect the general population from misinformation regarding
Common Lisp and its community. Some pain to Jean-Philippe is likely an
unavoidable side-effect of this work, and Phoe has made the open-eyed
personal decision to bear the negative karma for this side-effect. As much
as we need compassion for Jean-Philippe, we need even more for Phoe.  He is
going through a difficult time now, probably more than we can imagine, and
more than he imagined at the outset of this magnanimous intervention.
Also, other than our official "no" response to Hexstream's appeal for
emergency funding, none of my musings here are in any way meant to speak on
behalf of the CLF, and I should have made that more clear initially.
Moreover, in the hypothetical scenario that the CLF indeed were to
have access to discretionary investment capital, my vote would still be a
"no" at this juncture.
Jean-Philippe, if you're reading this, I am praying that you can retain
your unalloyed devotion and enthusiasm for Common Lisp, while somehow
finding a way to let go of your monstrous false ego which is alienating you
from the very community which deep down I know you love (even the ones you
smear). Also please let go of the toxic idea that this community owes you a
living in any way shape or form or the even more toxic and disastrous idea
that there is no way this community can thrive without your goodself
spearheading it. You may or may not receive donations in the future in
appreciation for contributions, but you cannot force such a turn of events
to happen, and depending on such a thing happening for your main income
source is a recipe for disappointment. Rather than looking inwards to the
CL tech community, look outside for ways to generate funds (maybe by
applying CL) --- and you will find them (I pray).
--
My Best,
Dave Cooper

@Serentty
There's a lot to unpack here...

So you're registering a startup

Well, I am planning to register in 2022, mostly as a way to save money, but it's a bit incidental. I didn't need to do that earlier because I had almost no cashflow anyway (around 1000$ CAD in revenue per year), so not much money to save on fees at that time, obviously. It would have been premature optimization.

and instead of accepting investments, you only want sponsorships

??? Sponsorships are a form of investment, aren't they? Since the primary focus of my life is Common Lisp Open Source, people can invest in me through sponsorships, which pretty much directly means that they are thus investing in Common Lisp and the Common Lisp community, given the nature of my work and especially my focus on community resources.

If this were some sort of charity it would be a different story

I mean, I had already been contributing to Common Lisp Open Source for nearly a decade without getting paid a single cent (I got my first sponsor in January 2020 and my first major sponsor in April 2020), and I had been building up experience with Common Lisp for 4 years and 5 months prior to that, also without getting paid a single cent (though I did intend to make money, just failed).
I do intend to eventually turn a profit, but for years my plan for eventual sustainability has been to throw free stuff at the world for free and hoping that people eventually throw cash at me for free. I think that seems like the optimal model for everyone involved.

but I'm not going to donate to your business just because you're using Common Lisp.

Ok, but around 100% of my use of Common Lisp is to contribute to Common Lisp Open Source, so this seems like a pretty nonsensical objection. I don't "just use" Common Lisp...

@genworks Your intervention is brutal and deeply misguided.
Since around 100% of the (actual or perceived) problems with "my ego" stem from the constant gross injustices that I am facing, a quick fix for that would be the Common Lisp community granting me very basic funding. In my current situation, 1000$/month would be basically infinite money, for fuck's sake.

past library work which is neither used nor depended upon.

Anyone can use them, at this time they are mostly or entirely used and depended upon by me as a springboard for producing much more important contributions. Isn't that enough? If I can make many high-quality small libraries, then surely I can gradually scale that up to more important work, and that's easier to do with a bit of funding than no funding.
How about we grant me some basic funding for a few months and see if that helps the situation or not? I bet it will, tremendously. I've been contributing to Common Lisp Open Source for more than a decade already, completely unpaid until this year. We all know I'm in this for the long run. What's the risk in funding me a bit, exactly?
I guess I feel entitled to basic justice and equity. And efficiency.

Oh, and by the way:
I have to declare phoe as being the single biggest threat to the Common Lisp mafia right now.

On Tue, Dec 8, 2020 at 6:16 PM Jean-Philippe Paradis <
<EMAIL_ADDRESS>wrote:

Oh, and by the way:
I have to declare phoe as being the single biggest threat to the Common
Lisp mafia right now.

Threat to the mafia? I thought he is part of said mafia.

This is the first I've heard of the Common Lisp Mafia.  It sounds great!  How can I join?  Do we get AMG Mercedes and handguns?

@genworks Correct. Sorry for the countless edits, phoe is actually the second biggest threat to the Common Lisp mafia, after me, of course. He's actually way more obsessed with the Common Lisp mafia than I am these days, so I initially forgot to count myself, LOL!!! Probably the single most hilarious mistake I ever did in my life...
So yeah, phoe is both part of the Common Lisp mafia and the second biggest threat to them. Confirm.

I don’t think you understand how this works.
If your business model isn’t succeeding, the right thing to do is to change your business model, preferably in response to some actual market data.  The right thing is decidedly NOT to throw a hissy fit and then promise to start behaving professionally if and when people write you checks.
You also don’t seem to understand the difference between a donation and an investment.  An investment is money that you give someone with the expectation that they will use it to make a monetary profit which they will then share with you.  Investments are structured with very specific expectations and specifications of how and when that return will happen depending on the success of the endeavor.  Normally these structures take the form of debt or equity, but there are other possibilities as well, but in any case investments are always accompanied by an agreement, usually in the form of a legal document, specifying the terms under which the investment is being made.  If there’s no investor agreement, there is by definition no investment.
A donation is money you give to a person or an organization in the hopes that they will do something with it that will generally end up making the world a better place, but without any expectation of a specific monetary return.
What you are soliciting here are donations, not investments.  And since you are soliciting donations, prospective donors should be assessing whether giving you money will generally tend to make the world a better place.  Speaking for myself, at the moment, that is far from clear.
I’ve worked in Common Lisp my entire career.  I’ve tried to get it adopted everywhere I’ve worked, with varying degrees of success.  I am currently working as a Common Lisp programmer, and the company I am working for is actively trying to hire someone to be my replacement so I can retire.  So I can say with a certain amount of authority that one of the major obstacles to getting Common Lisp more widely adopted is the perception that Common Lisp programmers are either unable or unwilling to conduct themselves in a professional manner.  No amount of open-source code written on your own volition is going to help counteract that perception.      The CL community has produced a lot of cool technology, but has failed miserably to produce a reliable labor force capable of leveraging that technology.  That is the problem that needs to be solved.
rg
On Dec 8, 2020, at 3:02 PM, Jean-Philippe Paradis<EMAIL_ADDRESS>wrote:

@genworks Your intervention is brutal and deeply misguided.
Since around 100% of the (actual or perceived) problems with "my ego" stem from the constant gross injustices that I am facing, a quick fix for that would be the Common Lisp community granting me very basic funding. In my current situation, 1000$/month would be basically infinite money, for fuck's sake.
past library work which is neither used nor depended upon.
Anyone can use them, at this time they are mostly or entirely used and depended upon by me as a springboard for producing much more important contributions. Isn't that enough? If I can make many high-quality small libraries, then surely I can gradually scale that up to more important work, and that's easier to do with a bit of funding than no funding.
How about we grant me some basic funding for a few months and see if that helps the situation or not? I bet it will, tremendously. I've been contributing to Common Lisp Open Source for more than a decade already, completely unpaid until this year. We all know I'm in this for the long run. What's the risk in funding me a bit, exactly?
I guess I feel entitled to basic justice and equity. And efficiency.
—
You are receiving this because you were mentioned.
Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub, or unsubscribe.

On Tue, Dec 8, 2020 at 6:02 PM Jean-Philippe Paradis <
<EMAIL_ADDRESS>wrote:

@genworks https://github.com/genworks Your intervention is brutal and
deeply misguided.

The intervention already started some time ago. I'm out here trying to find
an exit strategy for it, so everyone can move on happily and with as much
dignity as possible intact. This is an opportunity for you. Please take it.
I've just about run out of ways I can think of to help as well as time &
energy to continue paying attention to you.
Would you prefer to listen to what everyone is trying to say and strive for
a personal transformation, or go back to being completely ignored.
Those are your choices.

Since around 100% of the (actual or perceived) problems with "my ego" stem
from the constant gross injustices that I am facing, a quick fix for that
would be the Common Lisp community granting me very basic funding. In my
current situation, 1000$/month would be basically infinite money, for
fuck's sake.

 "we are dealing with an individual who will be quick to blame others

for his troubles"
How about we grant me some basic funding for a few months and see if that

helps the situation or not?

See if it helps what situation?
I advise you to be careful with such statements, which those who are not
clued in to your superior ethical framework might view as a threat
bordering on extortion:  "pay me or I'll continue my disruptive behavior."
Now that could be construed as mafia behavior. Racketeering.
Here's an opportunity to nip that perception risk (belatedly) in the bud.

I bet it will, tremendously. I've been contributing to Common Lisp Open
Source for more than a decade already, completely unpaid until this year.
We all know I'm in this for the long run. What's the risk in funding me a
bit, exactly?

Well, I can think of many risks.  One is that donating to your speculative
nebulous future efforts could undermine and discourage others who have made
and continue to make tangible, heavily used and crucial contributions.
Again I strongly urge you to pursue a Plan B (or C or D) for personal
revenue which does not involve our community. If you're a member of a
household and want to establish an income, it's expected that you bring in
money from outside the house, and not yourself expect to be paid for
household chores from your housemates who are also contributing to the
chores (even though household members may occasionally partake in gift
exchanges, such exchanges are not intended to provide an independent living
for any of the household members).
If you constantly violate that credo and demand payment for sharing in the
chores then you risk being made unwelcome in the household.
I guess I feel entitled to basic justice and equity. And efficiency.

You feel entitled, period. And that is big part of what is causing your
misery.

Briefly removing my comic-troll hat, the problem with this entire situation is that it's going to be what outsiders see as part and parcel of the Common Lisp community.
Not the awesome tooling (I love showing off the abstraction cliff-dive from defmacro down to disassemble, all within minutes, all within SLIME), not the awesome management tools (Roswell, Quicklisp), not the awesome libraries ... but this sort of cringe-worthy melodrama playing out in a Github issue of all places.

@Hexstream my $0.02 on how to salvage this:

Lose the raving about mafia, threats, debunking etc.  Just drop it on the floor and walk away.  It's helping no-one.

Pick a non-ambitious implementation target.  Doesn't matter if it's an uptick in an important metric like language adoption, a new library, or whatever - just make it concrete and achievable.  Lay out a roadmap for how you plan to attack it, and solicit donations scoped solely to achieving that target.

Succeed at delivering (2), and publicise that fact.

Repeat steps 2 to 3 with increasingly ambitious targets.

Hi Duncan,
On Tue, Dec 8, 2020 at 7:44 PM Duncan Bayne<EMAIL_ADDRESS>wrote:

Briefly removing my comic-troll hat, the problem with this entire
situation is that it's going to be what outsiders see as part and parcel of
the Common Lisp community.

We have realized this for a long time and have largely avoided confronting
the issue because of not wanting to air our dirty laundry to "outsiders,"
as you are warning.
However it has reached a point where outsiders may initially and mistakenly
see Hexstream's rantings themselves as "part and parcel of the Common Lisp
community," and so the CL Mafia has decided that we can no longer stand by
idly. And yes I'm still waiting for my AMG Mercedes (but still stuck in a
1999 ML 320 with 255,000 miles).
--
My Best,
Dave Cooper

Not enough mana.

However it has reached a point where outsiders may initially and
mistakenly see Hexstream's rantings themselves as "part and parcel of the
Common Lisp community," and so the CL Mafia has decided that we can no
longer stand by idly. And yes I'm still waiting for my AMG Mercedes (but
still stuck in a 1999 ML 320 with 255,000 miles).

To be clear, although I'm a board member of the Common Lisp Foundation, my
postings here consist of my own opinions and I am not speaking on behalf
the CLF (nor on behalf of Genworks or the Gendl project). Opinions are my
own.

If this tweet gets 10000+ RTs before 1 january 2021 I will delete my twitter after downloading a full archive.

:rofl:

posting from throwaway acct because I don't want my main to touch this whole thread.
There's nothing to be added to this thread. Dave and Duncan and Michal and Samuel and Alessio andPhoeron and multiple other people and even Ron Garret himself spent their time to talk some sense into hexstream, and he responds with a "not enough mana" shitpost; this alone shows clearly who is the real low-functioning sociopath with neurological damage. now he's attention whoring asking for 10k retweets, so if he can't get free money he can at least get free publicity, and he's making more twitter posts where he's going like "what did I do wrong?! prove me that I did something wrong" while completely ignoring the cosntructive stuff that people try to offer to him like Dave with all this gentle stuff about false ego.
Ron is right that CL is a good and well thought out language that is highly unusable for people-reasons, not tech-reasons. How languages are perceived socially is largely a matter of who's the loudest in the language community. Java has uncle Bob as a celebrity who is pretty loud and social; python has its benevolent dictator who is also a personality, clojure has Rich Hickey who is also famous, CPP has Stroustrup, also famous, and Lisp currently has Hexstream who has the combo of being the loudest screaming and yelling and begging guy in the whole lisp world while also having the most negative merit --- also famous, even more so now!
if someone mentions asdf fundraiser: no, you cant buy yourself a single $2520 ticket to be an ass forever. sending hex any further money is idiotic, he's caused much more than $2.5k in collateral damage, and most important of all he already got all his cash back anyway! @genworks should have mentioned that all dotations should go to @thephoeron because he donated tons of cash to hex this year ($2.8k in total that hex received as per https://sponsors.hexstreamsoft.com/log/) and then got dumped and blocked as soon as he stood up to him and turned off the money knob. that's some top 10 anime betrayal shit that doesn't belong in any sane programming community.
Still wonder why Lisp is perceived as loony park. Here's a jab at all the people who posted pop corn emoji and found this to be amusing --- "lisp isn't dying" because the technology sucks, "lisp is dying" because when someone takes a dump in the middle of the common room then some parts of the "community" go "haha look it's funny comedy" instead of moderating the hell out of the deranged room-shitter. if things go this way then we'll wait another century for someone to come replace Ron on his job, cause all the fresh blood chooses clojure or python because CL is obviously full of drama llamas --- like in this meme image where lisp is a shiv and anyone who uses it is probably dangerous.
hex won't change, everyone, stop posting, you did well trying, now there's a single comprehensive thread that provides beyond all measure that hex is unable to control himself and will just continue smearing crap over Lispers like a two-year child as soon as hes left unattended. no need to go digging into twitter or github rants anymore, all that was possible to say about this problem was already said tens of times including in this thread, and hex won't do a thing to change himself.  You able to find this situation funny, so you can do a thing to make it less funny.
trying to dump sense into hex is pointless because look at how it worked over the past years. it didn't, it doesn't, itwon't, it's obvious now, it's public, it's in people's mailboxes, it's archived in wayback, it's the best and probably the only good thing this whole thread achieved.  Hex won't hit the "close issue" button so Ill unofficially close it myself.

Still wonder why Lisp is perceived as loony park. Here's a jab at all the people who posted pop corn emoji and found this to be amusing --- "lisp isn't dying" because the technology sucks, "lisp is dying" because when someone takes a dump in the middle of the common room then some parts of the "community" go "haha look it's funny comedy" instead of moderating the hell out of the deranged room-shitter. if things go this way then we'll wait another century for someone to come replace Ron on his job, cause all the fresh blood chooses clojure or python because CL is obviously full of drama llamas --- like in this meme image where lisp is a shiv and anyone who uses it is probably dangerous.

But OK, here's a non-porcorn take: just let Jean-Phillipe be. He seems a peculiar individual. If you feel very offended by something, talk to him in private, showing your face and some empathy, like you supposedly would if you lived next to him. I didn't know Jean-Phillipe and honestly clicked through the links to find about this apparently interesting fundraiser, then started getting suspicious.   It's not a crime to not have a job. He only becomes "dangerous" because people like you hysterically give him the megaphone.

I can't really disagree with any of the below post (even though I'm right
now violating the Thread Closed!!! sign). And I'm not gonna blame the
author for remaining anonymous.
But somehow it was only today after all these years that I had seen the
possibility simply to treat @HexStreamsoft as a parody account. After all
he is constantly going on about "hilarity" -- it seems he's begging to have
us wake up and understand that this has all been a long-running gag.
Essentially it looks like parody of the worst aspects of a stereotypical
"lisp weenie" taken to absurd extremes. And this morning upon arising I had
come to the conclusion that the only (or let's say best) way to deal
with it is indeed to treat it like a parody account, play along in as
lighthearted a manner as possible, and create enough context around it that
it becomes more and more obviously a parody account for anyone first
encountering it.
But at least two problems arise from jumping on what looks like this quick
fix:

he has been hoodwinking real money from people, and

the below (timely) post came along, and pointed out the obvious
perspective that treating it as parody is akin to looking on and laughing
while a home invader is slinging his excrement all over the house whilst
simultaneously attempting to plunder the cashbox.

I'm seeing things both ways now. Sort of like one of these:
https://www.pinterest.com/pin/548524429612713230/  face illusions. So it
needs more discussion as far as I'm concerned.
On Wed, Dec 9, 2020 at 8:11 AM throwaway18374<EMAIL_ADDRESS>wrote:

posting from throwaway acct because I don't want my main to touch this
whole thread.
There's nothing to be added to this thread. Dave and Duncan and Michal and
Samuel and Alessio andPhoeron and multiple other people and even Ron Garret
himself spent their time to talk some sense into hexstream, and he responds
with a "not enough mana" shitpost; this alone shows clearly who is the real
low-functioning sociopath with neurological damage. now he's attention
whoring asking for 10k retweets, so if he can't get free money he can at
least get free publicity, and he's making more twitter posts where he's
going like "what did I do wrong?! prove me that I did something wrong"
while completely ignoring the cosntructive stuff that people try to offer
to him like Dave with all this gentle stuff about false ego.
Ron is right that CL is a good and well thought out language that is
highly unusable for people-reasons, not tech-reasons. How languages are
perceived socially is largely a matter of who's the loudest in the language
community. Java has uncle Bob as a celebrity who is pretty loud and social;
python has its benevolent dictator who is also a personality, clojure has
Rich Hickey who is also famous, CPP has Stroustrup, also famous, and Lisp
currently has Hexstream who has the combo of being the loudest screaming
and yelling and begging guy in the whole lisp world while also having the
most negative merit --- also famous, even more so now!
if someone mentions asdf fundraiser: no, you cant buy yourself a single
$2520 ticket to be an ass forever. sending hex any further money is
idiotic, he's caused much more than $2.5k in collateral damage, and most
important of all he already got all his cash back anyway! @genworks
https://github.com/genworks should have mentioned that all dotations
should go to @thephoeron https://github.com/thephoeron because he
donated tons of cash to hex this year ($2.8k in total that hex received as
per https://sponsors.hexstreamsoft.com/log/) and then got dumped and
blocked as soon as he stood up to him and turned off the money knob. that's
some top 10 anime betrayal shit that doesn't belong in any sane programming
community.
Still wonder why Lisp is perceived as loony park. Here's a jab at all the
people who posted pop corn emoji and found this to be amusing --- "lisp
isn't dying" because the technology sucks, "lisp is dying" because when
someone takes a dump in the middle of the common room then some parts of
the "community" go "haha look it's funny comedy" instead of moderating the
hell out of the deranged room-shitter. if things go this way then we'll
wait another century for someone to come replace Ron on his job, cause all
the fresh blood chooses clojure or python because CL is obviously full of
drama llamas --- like in this meme image where lisp is a shiv and anyone
who uses it is probably dangerous.
hex won't change, everyone, stop posting, you did well trying, now there's
a single comprehensive thread that provides beyond all measure that hex is
unable to control himself and will just continue smearing crap over Lispers
like a two-year child as soon as hes left unattended. no need to go digging
into twitter or github rants anymore, all that was possible to say about
this problem was already said tens of times including in this thread, and
hex won't do a thing to change himself.  You able to find this situation funny, so
you can do a thing to make it less funny.
trying to dump sense into hex is pointless because look at how it worked
over the past years. it didn't, it doesn't, itwon't, it's obvious now, it's
public, it's in people's mailboxes, it's archived in wayback, it's the best
and probably the only good thing this whole thread achieved.
—
You are receiving this because you were mentioned.
Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub
https://github.com/Hexstream/sponsors.hexstreamsoft.com/issues/1#issuecomment-741760562,
or unsubscribe
https://github.com/notifications/unsubscribe-auth/AACZBMGU5EIQICBWAUQYFULST5ZQZANCNFSM4UPUXQNQ
.

Throwaway accounts will be thrown away. More anonymous cowardice is not the solution, here.
"Not enough mana." obviously meant that I didn't have enough energy to respond yesterday.
And then this anonymous coward takes a huge dump right in the middle of the room.
And to top it off, people who should know better straight up agree with him. Jesus Christ, people.
I'm going to respond to Ron and others mostly as if this massive coward hadn't taken a massive dump in the room.
 Can't we react to that difference in a more civilized way, perhaps yes, with hilarity, instead of supreme moral condemnation?  If people give Jean Phillipe money, it's their problem, it's not like he's hiding anything (quite the contrary in fact, and quite in contrast to anonymous posters).  He's certainly not stealing anything, that's absurd.

The comment has been deleted by Jean-Philippe now, but it could be true the account is satire, potentially.
I don't believe so but, even assuming this is true, the tirades of such an account that has specifically targetted individuals may have caused - and could cause - irreparable damage to their reputations, and/or careers. This has been ongoing for ~10 years.
Personally, I don't believe Jean-Philippe is acting satirically, or maliciously, but has a hard time seeing that our criticisms are (in fact) an attempt to help him.
Before continuing, let me be clear:
I care about Jean-Philippe, the person.
I want to see Jean-Philippe succeed in his stated goals.
His goals, as stated, would be beneficial for Common Lisp, and anybody who uses Common Lisp.
I think he has a very difficult time realising that our criticisms are actually presented to help him, and sees them as opposition, for whatever reason. The actual reason for why he sees it this way is inconsequential.
What matters is that we have a person who is dedicated to a tool we love, enjoy, consider productive, and wants to promulgate such a thing.
How can we get Jean-Philippe to realise that we actually want to achieve similar goals, but we aren't necessarily against him? Only that his instant jump-to-the-worst-possible-conclusion attitude is a net negative for himself and the wider Common Lisp community.

I don't think you understand how I work. ;P

If your business model isn’t succeeding, the right thing to do is to change your business model, preferably in response to some actual market data.

As hopeless as it may seem to some, I'm going to continue to pursue the "give the world tons of cool stuff for free, and hope they throw some cash at me for free in return" business model, since it would be so perfectly ideal in my case.

The right thing is decidedly NOT to throw a hissy fit and then promise to start behaving professionally if and when people write you checks.

I have already demonstrated an ability to behave professionally in probably at least thousands of instances, even when it would have been easy to do otherwise. Sorry if I did not take the time to document them.

You also don’t seem to understand the difference between a donation and an investment.  An investment is money that you give someone with the expectation that they will use it to make a monetary profit which they will then share with you.  Investments are structured with very specific expectations and specifications of how and when that return will happen depending on the success of the endeavor.  Normally these structures take the form of debt or equity, but there are other possibilities as well, but in any case investments are always accompanied by an agreement, usually in the form of a legal document, specifying the terms under which the investment is being made.  If there’s no investor agreement, there is by definition no investment.
A donation is money you give to a person or an organization in the hopes that they will do something with it that will generally end up making the world a better place, but without any expectation of a specific monetary return.
What you are soliciting here are donations, not investments.  And since you are soliciting donations, prospective donors should be assessing whether giving you money will generally tend to make the world a better place.  Speaking for myself, at the moment, that is far from clear.

To me, an "investment" is simply an expenditure of resources the return of which is expected or hoped to be greater than the investment, with respect to the net values of the expenditure and return to the investor.
Note that under this model, even pure no-strings-attached donations are investments.
HexstreamSoft Sponsors does support pure donations, but also see Advanced Perks, although in the current hilariously toxic environment where I am constantly, mercilessly and quite successfully slandered and even good, well-meaning people can't see straight, obviously they may not be worth much, which is of course the entire point of all the slander. Mission successful, as they say.
I should probably document why sponsoring me is a good investment better, but haven't had the time to do so yet.

On Dec 9, 2020, at 10:17 AM, Jean-Philippe Paradis<EMAIL_ADDRESS>wrote:

I don't think you understand how I work. ;P

That may well be.  But you are the one asking me to write you a check, so what I think matters more.

I have already demonstrated an ability to behave professionally in probably at least thousands of instances, even when it would have been easy to do otherwise. Sorry if I did not take the time to document them.

  What matters to me, if I’m going to support your work, is whether you can be relied on to behave professionally in the future.  And I base that assessment in no small measure on what I observe in the present.  One of the things that I observe is that you appear to be utterly and willfully blind to how your own conduct contributes to the situation you find yourself in, and how you can improve your situation by changing your conduct.  Even if everything you have said about other people is true, you don’t improve your position by saying them, certainly not publicly.    Speaking freely has costs.
  It won’t be easy.  It may well be the hardest thing you’ve ever done.  But I think you will find that knowing how to not act like a jerk is actually a valuable skill with a wide range of applications, and so it’s worth putting some effort into.  But it’s your call.
  You might want to ask @genworks or @delaray because they seem to like you.  Rant and rave to them in private, but let them do all your public talking for you.  (Ask nicely, because they would be doing you a HUGE favor by agreeing to this.)
rg

@genworks

The intervention already started some time ago.

You mean in September 2018? Thank you again for this, it's truly epic!

I'm out here trying to find an exit strategy for it, so everyone can move on happily and with as much dignity as possible intact.

Funding me is the fast path to establishing dignity for everyone in the Common Lisp community.

This is an opportunity for you. Please take it. I've just about run out of ways I can think of to help as well as time & energy to continue paying attention to you.
Would you prefer to listen to what everyone is trying to say and strive for a personal transformation, or go back to being completely ignored.
Those are your choices.

I greatly appreciate your efforts.
I could probably afford to be more accommodating to people's (over)sensitivities, although that is a bit hard to do while wearing that heavy hazmat suit that I need to protect myself from the constant and endless torrents of bullshit thrown at me.

"we are dealing with an individual who will be quick to blame others for his troubles"

Although I am not perfect, blaming others is entirely fair in my situation.
Of course, the slanderers have a pretty good headstart, but in the end, integrity, which I embody, will prevail.

See if it helps what situation?
I advise you to be careful with such statements, which those who are not clued in to your superior ethical framework might view as a threat bordering on extortion:  "pay me or I'll continue my disruptive behavior." Now that could be construed as mafia behavior. Racketeering.

Come on. Get real.
The slanderers are the disruptors. I am the victim. I am requesting assistance in this battle, including of a financial nature.

Well, I can think of many risks.  One is that donating to your speculative nebulous future efforts could undermine and discourage others who have made and continue to make tangible, heavily used and crucial contributions.

I have made and will continue to make tangible, heavily used and crucial contributions, and it would be easier to do if I stopped getting constantly and unfairly undermined, including by being denied even basic funding.

Again I strongly urge you to pursue a Plan B (or C or D) for personal revenue which does not involve our community.

I have been investing myself heavily into Common Lisp and the Common Lisp community for more than a decade, and will continue to do so for decades to come if possible, to everyone's benefit. I would like to continue investing most of my time and energy directly in this endeavor, and that's easier to do with proper funding, as I tend don't have to divert my efforts elsewhere due to financial concerns.

You feel entitled, period. And that is big part of what is causing your misery.

Maybe everything would be way easier if I just completely abandoned the concept of ever being treated fairly.
That would immediately erase almost all of my "entitlement", which apparently disqualifies me from being treated fairly.

Ron,
Very well stated. Your objectivity and professional tone is quite refreshing especially in the context of this thread.
Just to be clear, what I honestly support is JP's enthousiasm and goals.
I think you have provided valuable advice and I sincerely hope that folks in this thread will be empowered by it.
Pierre-Raymond de Lacaze
<EMAIL_ADDRESS>Télécharger Outlook pour Androidhttps://aka.ms/ghei36

From: Ron Garret<EMAIL_ADDRESS>Sent: Wednesday, December 9, 2020 8:20:25 PM
To: Hexstream/sponsors.hexstreamsoft.com<EMAIL_ADDRESS>Cc: Pierre de Lacaze<EMAIL_ADDRESS>Mention<EMAIL_ADDRESS>Subject: Re: [Hexstream/sponsors.hexstreamsoft.com] Please support the Common Lisp Revival 2020 Fundraiser!!! (#1)
On Dec 9, 2020, at 10:17 AM, Jean-Philippe Paradis<EMAIL_ADDRESS>wrote:

I don't think you understand how I work. ;P

That may well be. But you are the one asking me to write you a check, so what I think matters more.

I have already demonstrated an ability to behave professionally in probably at least thousands of instances, even when it would have been easy to do otherwise. Sorry if I did not take the time to document them.

 What matters to me, if I’m going to support your work, is whether you can be relied on to behave professionally in the future. And I base that assessment in no small measure on what I observe in the present. One of the things that I observe is that you appear to be utterly and willfully blind to how your own conduct contributes to the situation you find yourself in, and how you can improve your situation by changing your conduct. Even if everything you have said about other people is true, you don’t improve your position by saying them, certainly not publicly.  Speaking freely has costs.
 It won’t be easy. It may well be the hardest thing you’ve ever done. But I think you will find that knowing how to not act like a jerk is actually a valuable skill with a wide range of applications, and so it’s worth putting some effort into. But it’s your call.
 You might want to ask @genworks or @delaray because they seem to like you. Rant and rave to them in private, but let them do all your public talking for you. (Ask nicely, because they would be doing you a HUGE favor by agreeing to this.)
rg
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In terms of thinking about your business model, maybe a feature/bounty
model could succeed with less friction than donations and money throwing —
at least at first?   https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open-source_bounty   In
general, there could be some features I might consider contributing
towards.  Not as a political or social cause, but because I’d see concrete
benefit for specific goals that aligned with my own.  And, of course, some
form of peer review.
On Wed, Dec 9, 2020 at 2:20 PM Ron Garret<EMAIL_ADDRESS>wrote:

On Dec 9, 2020, at 10:17 AM, Jean-Philippe Paradis <
<EMAIL_ADDRESS>wrote:

I don't think you understand how I work. ;P

That may well be. But you are the one asking me to write you a check, so
what I think matters more.

I have already demonstrated an ability to behave professionally in
probably at least thousands of instances, even when it would have been easy
to do otherwise. Sorry if I did not take the time to document them.

 What matters to
me, if I’m going to support your work, is whether you can be relied on to
behave professionally in the future. And I base that assessment in no
small measure on what I observe in the present. One of the things that I
observe is that you appear to be utterly and willfully blind to how your
own conduct contributes to the situation you find yourself in, and how you
can improve your situation by changing your conduct. Even if everything you
have said about other people is true, you don’t improve your position by
saying them, certainly not publicly.  Speaking freely has costs.
 It won’t be easy. It may well be the hardest thing
you’ve ever done. But I think you will find that knowing how to not act
like a jerk is actually a valuable skill with a wide range of applications,
and so it’s worth putting some effort into. But it’s your call.
 You might want to ask @genworks or @delaray because they seem
to like you. Rant and rave to them in private, but let them do all your
public talking for you. (Ask nicely, because they would be doing you a HUGE
favor by agreeing to this.)
rg
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.

@duncan-bayne

Briefly removing my comic-troll hat, the problem with this entire situation is that it's going to be what outsiders see as part and parcel of the Common Lisp community.

Unfortunately, it's going to get worse before it gets better... but it's going to get better faster if everyone stops shooting the messenger. ;)

this sort of cringe-worthy melodrama playing out in a Github issue of all places.

Actually, I do not believe there exists a better platform for this particular discussion at this point in time.

Lose the raving about mafia, threats, debunking etc. Just drop it on the floor and walk away. It's helping no-one. [...] No-one cares about debunking, threats to the Lisp Mafia [...]

Well, I will completely debunk phoe in 2021, but besides that, I'm really mostly done with the Common Lisp mafia stuff. He is way more obsessed with it than I am, these days. This stuff is quickly becoming historical. Or was it hysterical?
At least, "nobody even knows Hexstream exists" won't quite cut it anymore, and that's already a great start.

Pick a non-ambitious implementation target. Doesn't matter if it's an uptick in an important metric like language adoption, a new library, or whatever - just make it concrete and achievable. Lay out a roadmap for how you plan to attack it, and solicit donations scoped solely to achieving that target.
Succeed at delivering (2), and publicise that fact.
Repeat steps 2 to 3 with increasingly ambitious targets.

I already have plenty of concrete contributions under my belt, and I think my roadmap is pretty inspiring. I just don't think the bounty model would be suitable for me, for various reasons. For instance, both my apparent and actual productivity vary pretty wildly over time, and are in fact often mostly unrelated, since I often work on something for weeks or months before an initial release, all squashed into a single "Initial commit.". Also, the actual value of my contributions is oftentimes much higher than their perceived value, for various reasons. And all the slander definitely doesn't help with attracting fair reviews and other forms of help.

No-one cares about [...] traffic to your website.

Come on. I keep getting hard and soft censored everywhere, so it's nice to finally have some proof that my work is actually at least somewhat popular, and that's so damn inconvenient to the slanderers that some of them are throwing themselves straight into neurological damage territory with complete abandon in a pathetic attempt at dismissing it.

Everyone cares about outcomes: positive growth for the Common Lisp language, libraries, tooling, community, and commercial opportunities for its users. Achieve meaningful improvements to any one of those and people will be queuing up to support you.

Giving me a bit of funding is one the most cost-effective ways of helping achieve most of these goals.

@genworks

I can't really disagree with any of the below post (even though I'm right now violating the Thread Closed!!! sign). And I'm not gonna blame the author for remaining anonymous.

Far below expectations. We already have plenty of real people to discuss with. There is no need for angry anonymous cowards taking big dumps right in the middle of the room, and even less need for real people like you to sanctify it.

But somehow it was only today after all these years that I had seen the possibility simply to treat @HexStreamsoft as a parody account. After all he is constantly going on about "hilarity" -- it seems he's begging to have us wake up and understand that this has all been a long-running gag.
Essentially it looks like parody of the worst aspects of a stereotypical "lisp weenie" taken to absurd extremes. And this morning upon arising I had come to the conclusion that the only (or let's say best) way to deal with it is indeed to treat it like a parody account, play along in as lighthearted a manner as possible, and create enough context around it that it becomes more and more obviously a parody account for anyone first encountering it.

What's truly hilarious is that I am dead serious.

he has been hoodwinking real money from people, and

the below (timely) post came along, and pointed out the obvious
perspective that treating it as parody is akin to looking on and laughing
while a home invader is slinging his excrement all over the house whilst
simultaneously attempting to plunder the cashbox.

Could we please leave the slander to the slanderers?
I have never deceived anyone about anything in the last decade, at least.

So it needs more discussion as far as I'm concerned.

Absolutely! Fair scrutiny is to my direct advantage, so I welcome it with open arms! I always have.
I hope you find my replies enlightening. I believe we still have time to make some good progress before the fundraiser ends very soon. (10 december 2020 inclusive.)

@joaotavora

@genworks what if it's not a parody account and just the genuine ideas of someone that doesn't quite conform to your/our idea of normal? Can't we react to that difference in a more civilized way, perhaps yes, with hilarity, instead of supreme moral condemnation? If people give Jean Phillipe money, it's their problem, it's not like he's hiding anything (quite the contrary in fact, and quite in contrast to anonymous posters). He's certainly not stealing anything, that's absurd.

Thank you!!
@CuriousCain

the tirades of such an account that has specifically targetted individuals may have caused - and could cause - irreparable damage to their reputations, and/or careers.

Well, I guess I don't necessarily see causing irreparable damage to the reputations and/or careers of super corrupt people as a bad thing, but don't worry, I have had apparently almost no success whatsoever in that endeavor, and I have pretty much given up winning that battle.
My complete debunking of phoe in 2021 will be deeply hilarious, though, I guarantee it.
Of course, that's not even going to slow him down even one bit, but that's besides the point.

I think he has a very difficult time realising that our criticisms are actually presented to help him

Well, I do greatly appreciate the 5% of people who throw fair criticism my way, but make no mistake, the slanderers (the other 95%) are in no way trying to help me, and especially not when they are trying to gaslight me and others into believing that they really are.

.
Could we please leave the slander to the slanderers?
I have never deceived anyone about anything in the last decade, at least.

Fair enough. Calling what you do “Hoodwinking” was not appropriate. I take
it back. My apologies.
Now I’m saying bye to this thread. I hope everything works out as it’s
meant to be.
--
My Best,
Dave Cooper<EMAIL_ADDRESS>genworks.com, gendl.org
+1<PHONE_NUMBER>

Thank you for everything you've done! You went above and beyond! Feel free to take some rest.
Everything will be fine if other genuinely caring people enter the discussion and/or help make the fundraiser successful. We still have time!

@rongarret

That may well be.  But you are the one asking me to write you a check, so what I think matters more.

Obviously. I do think there will be, or should be, a very significant relation between your understanding of the situation and the size of your check, given the nature of my work and the crucial importance of your financial contribution towards its empowerment, especially right now before the fundraiser ends. The entire Common Lisp community stands to benefit! I always do my best to align myself with "win-win-win" scenarios.

  What matters to me, if I’m going to support your work, is whether you can be relied on to behave professionally in the future.  And I base that assessment in no small measure on what I observe in the present.

Well, I can only hope that my last few replies in the present give you a pretty good hint about my current and future capabilities. I always find it much easier to be professional with real people like you than random slanderers, anonymous or otherwise.

One of the things that I observe is that you appear to be utterly and willfully blind to how your own conduct contributes to the situation you find yourself in, and how you can improve your situation by changing your conduct.

I could afford to do some efforts in that field, but note that "my conduct" is almost entirely a symptom of the extremely toxic environment that I am basically trying to forcefully drag to a state of dignity against its will. There is no clean and easy way to do this, although it will be much cleaner and easier if I get at least some basic funding... :sweat_smile:

Even if everything you have said about other people is true, you don’t improve your position by saying them, certainly not publicly. [...] Speaking freely has costs.

Hilariously true, unfortunately.  Honestly, I could have whispered the truths in countless ears for decades without even having any impact whatsoever. I instead chose the public disclosures approach, which is already starting to bear fruit after only about 5 years.

Exactly, and sometimes you're so privileged like me that you feel obligated to put that privilege to good use for a good cause, even if it means very significant personal incomfort for a prolonged period. Seriously, I could just have shut up and/or resigned myself to use blub and my career would be superficially extremely awesome right now. You could help giving me back some of my lost comfort by helping to fund me so that I can do even more good in the world.

  It won’t be easy.  It may well be the hardest thing you’ve ever done.  But I think you will find that knowing how to not act like a jerk is actually a valuable skill with a wide range of applications, and so it’s worth putting some effort into.  But it’s your call.

Sure, I'm going to put some more effort into it, and frankly, this is much easier to do than a lot of my other accomplishments, and I have already become much more tame along the years, and it will be even easier with increasing success. Unfortunately, my impending success rightfully scares a lot of powerful people, and the resulting increasingly unhinged attacks I am facing and my reaction to them sometimes greatly obscure the fact of my increasingly zen state of being.

  You might want to ask @genworks or @delaray because they seem to like you.  Rant and rave to them in private, but let them do all your public talking for you.  (Ask nicely, because they would be doing you a HUGE favor by agreeing to this.)

Frankly, I think that would be a great loss to the world. Radical transparency is a hard requirement for me, and there is clearly nobody who would be more apt at representing me than myself.

@delaray

Ron,
Very well stated. Your objectivity and professional tone is quite refreshing especially in the context of this thread.

Agreed!!

Just to be clear, what I honestly support is JP's enthousiasm and goals.

Thank you! Your support in this thread has been and continues to be absolutely critical!!

I think you have provided valuable advice and I sincerely hope that folks in this thread will be empowered by it.

We are! :)

Common Lisp Revival 2020 Fundraiser ends today!
This has been a batshit insane 12 days.
Basically, at this point I'm out of steam and waiting on possible large donations or other major events.
To anyone listening, I am relying on your support.
Thank you.

Is it?
Here are two hypotheses to explain what I observe here:

Phoe is “neurologically damaged” in point of actual fact, you have correctly diagnosed this, and you are correct in your assessment that it is essential for “everyone” to be informed of your diagnosis.

You have publicly leveled a charge of neurological damage at Phoe without any basis in actual fact, but rather because he disparaged your work and you’re pissed off at him.

Which of these seems more probable to you?
FWIW, when I assess the probability of hypothesis #1 I find myself wondering: do you have any training in diagnosing neurological damage?  Have you had an opportunity to examine Phoe in a clinical setting?  Have you ever even met him at all, or are you basing your diagnosis entirely on what you’ve read on his twitter feed?  And who is “everyone”?  There are seven billion people on the planet, is it really essential that every last one of them receive the word of Phoe’s neurological damage?  These seem to me like reasonable questions to ask, but they are questions that you appear not to have considered (or at least anticipated) because you have offered no hint of answers to any of them.  You’ve simply claimed the ethical high ground on the basis of having exposed some essential truths without offering any evidence that these truths are in fact essential to disclose on any quality metric other than your own personal self-interest, or even that these “truths” are actually true.
So no, I don’t think that calling you out on this is “a bit much”.  To the contrary, there appear to me to be some ugly truths here that absolutely everyone must hear, and if I follow your example I would be ethically bound to publicly disclose them.
And that is why your approach doesn’t work.  It requires someone to be the arbiter of what are the essential truths that everyone absolutely must hear.  And while it is very noble of you to step up to the plate and volunteer to take on this weighty responsibility, the whole thing falls apart as soon as a someone else decides they want the job.
rg

Alright, Ron Garret, let me tell you one thing.
I empathize with you for falling for Michał Herda's scam(s), since you obviously haven't had time to investigate this properly yet. Indeed, this is pretty much his entire strategy. He is attacking me at this time because he knows I don't have time to properly debunk him because of the fundraiser.
 I will be happy to debunk them in real-time piecemeal for you and everyone else. Given a fair trial, I will stand up to scrutiny, he will not.
I strongly suggest you do this, lest this become your permanent black mark as someone who understandably fell for a scam and then failed to properly investigate when pressed.

JP,
FWIW : I would honestly recommend taking any feud between yourself and “Phoe”, (who by the way I’ve never heard of and I know quite a lot of people in the CL community) offline. It doesn’t serve your purpose to make this “feud” a “first-class object”, in fact it, imo, only hurts your cause.
I would encourage you to have the confidence to move forward with your goals and your vision, put energy into those endeavors, rather than “wasting” energy in refuting those who are dissing you. I think you’ll be pleasantly surprised to find that this will be (perhaps ironically) better perceived and supported by the greater CL community, on the one hand, and on the other hand, I quite frankly think you’ll feel more appreciated as well which is an important and non-negligible aspect of contributing to a community.
This is my 2 cents worth and strictly in the realm of IMHO (or IMNSHO).
Cheers,
Pierre
Raymond-Pierre de Lacaze
<EMAIL_ADDRESS>From: Jean-Philippe Paradis<EMAIL_ADDRESS>Sent: Thursday, December 10, 2020 6:52 PM
To: Hexstream/sponsors.hexstreamsoft.com
Cc: Pierre de Lacaze; Mention
Subject: Re: [Hexstream/sponsors.hexstreamsoft.com] Please support the Common Lisp Revival 2020 Fundraiser!!! (#1)
Alright, Ron Garret, let me tell you one thing.
I empathize with you for falling for Michał Herda's scam(s)https://twitter.com/HexstreamSoft/status/1336035296421572612, since you obviously haven't had time to investigate this properly yet. Indeed, this is pretty much his entire strategy. He is attacking me at this time because he knows I don't have time to properly debunk him because of the fundraiser.
 I will be happy to debunk them in real-time piecemeal for you and everyone else. Given a fair trial, I will stand up to scrutiny, he will not.
I strongly suggest you do this, lest this become your permanent black mark as someone who understandably fell for a scam and then failed to properly investigate when pressed.
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@delaray
Thank you. I appreciate your perspective and I think it is probably valid in general.
In my case, though, I have made a permanent and irrevocable commitment to radical transparency, in large part because I know or believe I can afford it thanks to my relatively great privilege. I think it would be a great loss to the world if I suddenly gave up on that.
I would not know how to live any other way, and it would be very weird and suspicious if I suddenly fell completely silent, especially right after finally getting some real opposition after several years of almost complete silence which I repeatedly denounced and offered as strong implicit proof that I am right.
The world needs at least a few people like me, and I am humbly requesting support from caring people like you to be even more effective in my painful but rightful crusades.

JP,
By no means do I think you should be silent.
Quite the contrary, I encourage you to be vehemently vocal.
I would simply prefer to read about your voracious visions, your enticing endeavors and your  enterprising efforts for Common Lisp rather than be the reluctant recipient of the beligerent battles with your anarchous archenemies such as the fiercley fiendish Phoe.
Tell us more about your goals and vision and let the garbage collector handle your Foes.

rpl

Télécharger Outlook pour Androidhttps://aka.ms/ghei36

From: Jean-Philippe Paradis<EMAIL_ADDRESS>Sent: Thursday, December 10, 2020 7:29:44 PM
To: Hexstream/sponsors.hexstreamsoft.com<EMAIL_ADDRESS>Cc: Pierre de Lacaze<EMAIL_ADDRESS>Mention<EMAIL_ADDRESS>Subject: Re: [Hexstream/sponsors.hexstreamsoft.com] Please support the Common Lisp Revival 2020 Fundraiser!!! (#1)
@delarayhttps://github.com/delaray
Thank you. I appreciate your perspective and I think it is probably valid in general.
In my case, though, I have made a permanent and irrevocable commitment to radical transparency, in large part because I know or believe I can afford it thanks to my relatively great privilege. I think it would be a great loss to the world if I suddenly gave up on that.
I would not know how to live any other way, and it would be very weird and suspicious if I suddenly fell completely silent, especially right after finally getting some real opposition after several years of almost complete silence which I repeatedly denounced and offered as strong implicit proof that I am right.
The world needs at least a few people like me, and I am humbly requesting support from caring people like you to be even more effective in my painful but rightful crusades.
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@delaray
Alright, well you can thank me for immediately refusing to let phoe himself shit all over this thread (which would have been instant death), among other crucial moderation decisions I made that allowed this thread to be viable and productive.
I just want to make clear that phoe has nothing useful to say about me, and hopefully Ron in particular will quickly come to realize this.
I am very heartened that you remain stoic in the face of this slanderous disruptor.
I greatly appreciate your crucial assistance and patience in this difficult campaign.

We still have a few hours at most before my GitHub Sponsors doubler expires.
If anyone wants to get a large donation in at the last minute (Pierre?), then go to the fundraiser page right now and if there is still a banner at the top saying that GitHub will double your contribution, then you still have time!!
In any case, given the existence of this epic thread, I am very optimistic about my post-fundraiser prospects in the coming months.
Thank you.

To be clear, GitHub Sponsors had said that my doubler expires on 11 december, but I decided that 10 december would be the official end of the fundraiser because I didn't want to start counting timezones and stuff.

In the interest of radical transparency, here is Too Much Information™ about me.
I hope some of you find this inspiring. There is still some time left before my doubler expires...

Alright! Common Lisp Revival 2020 Fundraiser has finished. The fundraiser was a financial failure, probably mostly due to starting late. My bad! THANK YOU to all participants! I'm very hopeful about my post-fundraiser prospects, thanks to this EPIC THREAD! (Tweeted.)
There is quite a lot more to say about this, but it's late and I'm very exhausted so I'll try to wrap this thing up before Christmas, I have quite a lot of work to do for this. And there will no doubt be quite a lot of interesting stuff happening post-fundraiser, as this still has been a relatively high-profile event. (It's all relative!)
This thread will remain open as long as I deem it useful, and I will actively moderate it as needed. Thank you!

In the interest of radical transparency

not sure why you dont list your cell number in your dox. not like it isn't publicly available online already

Deleted @goffa48 message and blocked him. This is a 3 days old anonymous account which I will report.
There will be no glorification of doxing in here. This will always be an instaban.

Hello everyone. My name is Pavel, some of you might know me, for the rest, I'm a lisper with minuscule public contributions to the community, but I do use common lisp professionally to a degree now, so I guess I count as more than just a lisp fan :)
I've tried to stay out of this mess for years and when hex contacted me about the fundraiser I basically told him that I didn't buy his allegations but engaged with him and gave him I think a fare chance to explain himself, spend a couple of days thinking about it carefully before I responded too. After some back and forth I decided to contribute a small, almost symbolic amount with the strong advice that he use it in order to asses his mental health, rather than use it towards any contribution to lisp he might be planning as I felt that would benefit both him and his work better and the community better.
I planned to stay away after that as I have much much bigger worries in my private life than the public drama of the open source world. I told him not to contact me and that I was done. Unfortunately, in the 30?ish hours since I last spoke with him, things seem to have deteriorated somewhat with him intentionally doxing himself for some incomprehensible reason and trying to put the blame on others by insinuating that it was preemptive?! One screenshot I saw had him giving his address and warning people not to come uninvited. I'm sorry, that prompted me once again to insist you seek help.
You're verging into self-harm territory here. You claimed to have "come to your senses" quickly, but you have told me multiple times that you are "dangerously sane" is that what this means? Dangerously sane only some of the time?
To be clear, I absolutely do not consider neurodivergence to be a form of mental illness. Very far from it. I am strongly opposed to the stigma people on the spectrum are subject to. But abusive and extreme behavior certainly is a sign, and even if neurodivergence is not a mental illness in and of itself, managing it's social consequences can be very rough without help.
I also share your fear that the mental health industry is very much filled with all sorts of quackery and prejudice, I had to deal with it myself this year on several occasions and I would agree, but just like tech, competent, compassionate professionals who know what they are doing do exist and as challenging as it is to find them, it is not impossible. Please do try.
Go with health and prosperity,
Pavel "Lispegistus" Penev

Thank you for trying to help, Pavel. You are actually helping, just not exactly in the way you thought you were. I'm pretty tired today (and hopefully, everyone will understand why) but I'll try to address one particular point, which I am glad you are giving me such a great opportunity to expand on. Sorry, this will be pretty badly written.

Unfortunately, in the 30?ish hours since I last spoke with him, things seem to have deteriorated somewhat with him intentionally doxing himself for some incomprehensible reason and trying to put the blame on others by insinuating that it was preemptive?! One screenshot I saw had him giving his address and warning people not to come uninvited. I'm sorry, that prompted me once again to insist you seek help.
You're verging into self-harm territory here. You claimed to have "come to your senses" quickly, but you have told me multiple times that you are "dangerously sane" is that what this means? Dangerously sane only some of the time?

Since times immemorial, I have always refused to use "privacy protection" services for WHOIS, systematically disabling them when possible. These days, some services perhaps wisely don't even support that option, or in any case, the information is obscured in many ways in many places and not particularly easy to find.
My reasoning was, quite simply, I really have nothing to hide, and I basically don't really mind if someone successfully maps out some of the domains that I own. This aligns with my usual ideals of radical transparency, and I thought, since I am a Privileged White Male™, I might as well use my opportunity to signal, "hey, I'm just a guy, I'm not some random troll who needs to hide, and there's really no legitimate reason anyone would want to hurt me anyway, so I don't really care to hide my personal information, whatever". Obviously, quite a lot of people couldn't even consider doing that, for a panoply of entirely legitimate reasons, including potential consequences including death in whatever countries and stuff.
 So like, the probability of that information eventually leaking, especially given my ever increasing "notoriety" is, like, literally 100%. So I figured there is not much point even trying to hide it. On top of that, pretty much nothing bad ever happens in the city where I live, like, the murder rate is 0 or something like that. Great place!

Enter Michał Herda (phoe).
 (I called him out here.)
So.  I probably don't even need to mention that "he just published what seems to be his complete address and phone details himself." is at least dangerously maliciously misleading, or frankly even a complete lie. I did deliberately disable WHOIS protection, but still.
On top of that, if you went to the page that the screenshot is from (at the time where I still had WHOIS protection disabled), if you have javascript enabled like a normal human being, then the page actually obscures the personal information with "REDACTED FOR PRIVACY", which is in fact one of the reasons why I thought leaving WHOIS protection off was really not a big deal. (I had no idea this feature was javascript-only.) So phoe deliberately misrepresents that the information is just automatically and always presented to everyone who visits that page, which is patently false. In fact, I immediately thought that his screenshot was fake (in part because of the obviously bogus "last updated" date) and almost publicly called him out, until I saved the URL in the Wayback Machine and saw that the information was actually there. What the fuck.
So. Per my initial reasoning above (100% chance of a leak, which had already definitely fallen in the worst possible hands), once that happened, it seemed a viable option to just publish my address in an attempt to preempt any other fucktards like him from having an impact. So I rushed to finish my "whoami" project, which I already thought maybe I should publish before the end of the fundraiser since I thought it might possibly help, and it seemed like a logical place to publish my address. https://whoami.hexstream.xyz/
The initial version had a "I am not hiding" link to https://whoami.hexstream.xyz/dox/, which contained my real address and some warnings.  Although my address is definitely already out there, that's already a big step if it's at least completely and grossly illegal to share it publicly, which is of course invalidated if I continuously and deliberately publish it myself for everyone to see. So right then I just immediately activate WHOIS protection for all my domains and I do my best to wipe out my address from my site, including the git history.
Enter Michał Herda (phoe). Again.
 I called him out here.
 I don't even want to explain the gaslighting retardation in there, it ought to be pretty obvious.

So yeah. Am I not at least pretty close to dangerously sane, Pavel? Unlike phoe, who has already proven he will get exponentially more insane, as I predicted.
Does anyone doubt that phoe is a dangerous scam artist anymore? No? Good.

Since times immemorial, I have always refused to use "privacy protection" services for WHOIS, systematically disabling them when possible.

Privacy is not necessarily about hiding: it is a necessary space for the individual to grow.  Without a private, we cannot conceive of having a public.

  That string of reasoning is barely coherent. And furthermore, after looking into Michał, who I didn't follow until you brought him up, I'm fairly certain he is not what you allege he is.   I think the people who think you are malicious are somewhat justified, even though I think you're merely confused.
Not to mention how it looks from outside our lisp bubble, I've seen several people already claim that they've had significant difficulty getting lisp work approved by management because your non-sense pops up when they google the language. I didn't even consider that until very recently.

I've seen several people already claim that they've had significant difficulty getting lisp work approved by management because your non-sense pops up when they google the language.

Do you have an example of a generic Common Lisp-related search query that turns up non-sense?

@luismbo no, I saw some tweets in a phoe thread claiming stuff like that.

On the lighter side of things, I was once googling LispNYC but accidentally typed in LipsNYC which turned out the following results:
http://www.nycdragshow.com/[Image]
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I've seen several people already claim that they've had significant difficulty getting lisp work approved by management because your non-sense pops up when they google the language.
Do you have an example of a generic Common Lisp-related search query that turns up non-sense?
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Essentially, twitter has officially agreed with me that Michał Herda (phoe) is a doxer.

I have no idea why his account is still up.
Unfortunately, phoe successfully scammed twitter into locking my account and demanding that I delete my tweet calling out his doxing. I submitted an appeal and am awaiting the verdict. The tweet I called out is this one, I have no idea why it's still up (or why his almost 100% harassment-based account is still up even when he was found guilty of doxing).
I was planning to wait until I receive the verdict before determining my next steps and possibly making official announcements, but phoe started bragging about successfully scamming twitter into thinking I am the harasser for calling out his doxing...

Oh, and the exact text of my appeal in their very character-limited text box was:

My tweet calls out relentless harasser phoe for basically doxing me. I received a notification yesterday that twitter agrees phoe violated the twitter rules.

("that" should have been "stating".)

I'm the canary in the coal mine and I'm almost dead, just to let you know.

I could probably save the situation pretty much entirely on my own (which would inevitably take much less effort than making people understand patently obvious truths) once my second web framework is ready, but without funding, I'm not sure if I'll even be (meaningfully) alive by then. The Common Lisp mafia already effectively shut down my twitter indefinitely for no reason, and there is no indication that they are going to stop there. Indeed, why would they refrain from destroying the Common Lisp community even more when they are facing nearly infinite upside and almost literally zero downside for doing so?
So yeah. Bystander effect is literally a killer. If you're going to do something concrete and useful one day, then do it now, don't just wait while the shitshow gets ever more shitty.